24 July 2006

This Concerns Me

China's Air Force Recruiting


Carey said...

That concerns me too.

~*Joyzey*~ said...

Wow. World War III, here we are.

Redwalldebater said...

Sorry Joyzey but... duh
It's been coming and I think that CHina may just be 'preparing' incase, but really. If they prepare for something that may not happen they are just giving the image that they WANT a war.
Stupid China

Palm boy said...

We're are in the midst of World War III, and its called the War on Terror.

China and the US won't go to war, Unless China just radically alters their forign policy.

We'll beat them the same way we beat the Soviets. Did we fight the soviets? Not directly. Indirectly, yes, but on a small scale. We beat them with freedom.

"Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders. ... The Goliath of totalitarianism will be brought down by the David of the microchip."
-Ronald Reagan

The internet is our weapon in this war. The spread of truth is what the commies fear most, but who will they fight? Themselves, and internal revolution, not the US.

TheEarthCanBeMoved said...

But you forget,
There are three ways fora country to influence events,
Political, Economical, and Military.

The Soviets choose to go strictly military.
We new we couldn't beat them in an all out war,
(Thankfully nukes kept that from happening)
So we had to use the other two.

Beinag a capitalist country helped with the economic,
And the fact that every one liked us gave us political leverage.

That's how we beat them.

China hashas got the numbers advantage that the Soviets had.
Their economy is quickly rivaling ours,
And they do have a good deal of political influence.
If there is a war,
It will not go as well as it did with the Soviets.

Abd while spreading truth and justice throughout cyberspace is good and all,
It won't change the mind of the chinesse people.
The fact that their government blocks all sites that they don't like doesn't help.
And even if it did,
YOu and I both know that still won't reach the dense people that don't want to hear.

Redwalldebater said...

you know the way you guys go on and on you would think that there was no chance that we could win. But I think you're right also.

China, apparently, is where we got the money to help all those poor people in New Orleans after Katrina hit. They have a lot of say in our economy let alone the rest of the worlds.

They hold all the ports on our West coast and probably have fingers in everybodies country around hte world... kinda like we do.

If it does come to war one of us will go home crippled and the other will stand atop of the mountain, King. Desperately trying to fend off all the little countries who think that one will be easy pickings.

wow... I actually made sense... to me at least LoL

TheEarthCanBeMoved said...

SHe's right.
If it does come to war,
The looser will get whooped pretty badly.
They'll be lucky if they still survive at all.

Hopefully it won't come to that.

Palm boy said...

Chinese economy:
" China's economy at best grew less than half the official GDP average of 7.6% between 1998 and 2001, and possibly even contracted during the crucial years of 1998 and 1999. "

Its very hard to get real numbers on the Chinese economy, because its a communist regiem, who lies about everything.

As for Chinese political influence, I don't believe they have much, outside of other communist governments. They're arrogance is very off putting.

Truth is the best weapon one can use against communism. And there is no one, not even a communist government, that can block all of the internet. While Yahoo and Google may censor much content, there are many ways through the net. And even the densest person will see the truth after a time.

Much of this is happening already. American fashion, entertainment, and eating habbits are taking hold in the large cities, much to the consternation of traditional communist. Freedom is a goal that everyone has, and even a communist government can't keep it down.

Redwall, what are you talking about? The money from katrina came from US citizens, both in the form of charity and in taxes.

And it won't come to war. There is no way on the face of this earth that China will attack the US. Their interest in our money is simply to great, as is our interest in their goods.

Redwalldebater said...

Truth doesn't always win. Remember that truth is sometimes hurtful and when it is most people shove it away.

Just because American habits etc. are taking hold in China doesn't mean that they are going to be getting freedom anytime soon it just means that one culture is influencing another.

The governement in China may try and stop this from happening if they can but I find it hard to believe that it's actually hurting their regime.

As for Katrina money I read the article but I just can't find it now. It was a while ago. At least $200K came from China in the form of a loan. I was really ticked off about it too.

But that is just one example. China has a long arm and a good hold on the American economy. They support the Dollar along with the Japanese. And I'm sure that if push came to shove China and Japan would side rather than China V American and Japan.

And it doesn't have to be all out war in the beginning. Once China begins to think that they can manipulate us via economy or political influence then we will have a serious problem on our hands. Then it will be 'who fires the first shot' not 'are we at war.'

Some instances of political influence trying to be leveled at us, and being leveled at us is the recent UN summit where countries tried to get together and form policies on international small arms (gun) trade.

Granted it fell to pieces... just type in UN Gun Ban to Google news and you will come up with tons of different articles. (most will be a rumor that was passedaround to much about how they were trying to disarm the US but search and you will find the good ones)

When the UN or NATO or some other organization tries to get the world to act in unison someone is going to lose and someone is going to win.

China can very easily try and manipulate the US onto the loosing side. They can try and get us to be limited in what we can do internationally and cripple us.

War is not always guns and nukes. War is political in every sense of the word. People manuevering to be on top so on and so forth...

Carey said...

I can tell you three were in debate.

To tell you the truth, I don't think this is the end. It may be the beginning of the end, but we're not going to see Armageddon just yet. In fact, I don't even think the US (as we know it) will be around for the Last Battle.

Redwalldebater said...

None of the countries will be the same when the 'last battle' comes. And as far as we know we are in the last battle we've just had breathers between conflicts. Germany managed to get back on its feet after WWI and now after WWII it's functioning still. Who says that we are not fighting it already.

I personally think that one day the world will be 'united' but it will fall into Civil war destroying whatever is left of the earth at the time. Maybe we will have a moon base where missles are launched at the earth destroying whole countries. I dunno...

~*Joyzey*~ said...

Jason, I'm sorry for opening this conversation up. But it was bound to happen sometime.

Palm boy said...

Truth doesn't always win? My, have you been ignoring history? The truth always comes out.

Any of ya'll know about Hong Kong? Its a province of China that is essentially its own government, and will be until 2047. It runs nearly identical to a British government, as it should. It used to be a colony. But, without outside influences, do you think the Politburro would allow something like that? A beacon of freedom in the midst of the darkest regime on the planet? As it is, Hong Kong is the 11th largest economy in the world, with an average growth of 8.5%. Why? Because it's free.
Now, contrast that with the rest of China, and which would you rather be a part of, if you were a Chinese citizen?

Redwall, anything that doesn't fit into the perfect model 'created by Lennin and perfected by Mao' is a danger to the communist government. Why else would Mao have killed millions in a 'cultural revolution'? Thats why the soviets kept their citizens in the dark, and that is one of the main differences in our forms of government. In a free nation, the flow of knowlegdge is welcomed. In a communist nation, it is shunned and destroyed. Why? Because the truth wins, no matter how it is discovered.

So, we barrowed money from China. Everyone else barrows from us.

I do not think Japan would side with China. They are economic enemies, and politicaly at odds. Do you think that a free country would willingly side with the largest communist nation on the planet? Japans largest customer is the US, and it makes no sense to alienate your customers. Besides, we saved them from a theocractic dictatorship sometime back in the '40s.

And like the cold war, it will be 'who fires the first shot. And like the cold war, no one will. China has to much to loose, and the US has to much respect for life.

Are we back to trembling about NATO and the UN? Kyoto protocol anyone? It was voted down 91-0 in the sentate.

And no, I don't think we're anywhere near the end.

I think I'm going to start working on a China post... A nice looong China post.

Redwalldebater said...

When you get it done let me know.

I agree with most everything you said but one thing. We will be at war, guns and all that. But it won't be with China. It will be with pawns of china. How much do you want to be that N. Korea some day will be at war wtih us? They are one of China's pawns.

~*Joyzey*~ said...

The War with North Korea never ended.

The Legion of Justice said...

I must find myself agreeing that the war with North Korea has never ended and will never end as long as there is Communism in that area. The 39th parallel is still the most heavily guarded border that has ever existed, and that will not change until the Communist regime is taken down from its throne.
If China does use its pawn N. Korea, the best chance that they would have of open war with the United States is to have N. Korea to attack Japan and S. Korea at the same time. That would tie up the United States in a war that involved more than one dimension at the same time. Another thing that China knows, it cannot defeat the United States on Chinese soil. The United States would not care to bomb the Chinese territory, but a war on US soil would be something unheard of, causing mass mayhem and proving to the rest of the world that the United States is not as invincible as it thinks it is. The United States has not been conventionally attacked on its own turf since December 7, 1941, and it would be hard pressed to call back its troops to try and defeat an army that is much larger than its own.

Japan would also not ever ally with China, not because of political differences or economy differences. If anything China would try to destroy everything that has to do with the Japanese culture and way of life. The hatred against Japan that was a result of WWII is still very much alive. When the Japanese went through China and Korea, they did unspeakable things to the people of those countries. Those countries have not forgotten, and will not easily forget. If anything, they will try to destroy Japan from existence as a world power.

I don't think that you give the United States credit for the power that it does have. In the air, we have the new F/A-22, that against our best fighter, the F-15 C and the F-15 D models, and with over four to one odds it still dominated the sky with no simulated casualties. The Chinese do not have anything new to fight with in the air that the United States cannot defeat. If China cannot defeat the United States in the air, it cannot defeat it at all. Also, a recent news release by Lockheed Martin stated, "The Raptor reached Initial Operational Capability in December 2005. Lockheed Martin has delivered 74 F-22s to the U.S. Air Force as of June 30, and 107 Raptors are currently on contract." Not bad for thinking that only 10 were operational. The United States isn't as unprepared as some would like to think. (quote taken from a press release, Lockheed Martin, July 19, 2006)

Anonymous said...

thats crazy!

Palm boy said...

He who rules the air, rules the world.

I think China would have a very, very hard time landing on US soil. Crossing the Pacific takes a while, and they don't have any troops in North America, like the US does in Asia.

If it comes to a war...

If North Korea is a pawn, which I don't believe. Kim Jong is far to arrogant to follow the demands of China.

Redwalldebater said...

But would Kim Jong rather work with China or have to fight them and S. Korea?

Carey said...

Yes and no - Kim Jong is a bit dillusional. One would expect him to side with China out of self-preservation (as most would do), but I also wouldn't be surprised if the crazy little man took a stance against China and South Korea. Who knows?

Palm boy said...

I think KJ is looking for a fight with South Korea as we speak. He has no fear of reprimands. Likewise, his relations with China are not so good. A lot of his people are trying to escape into China, so they're locking down the border.

Carey said...

Such a mess.

Palm boy said...

And such is the world we live in. :D

"Its our lot in life. We seem to be made to suffer." -C3PO

Carey said...

Only you would quote C3PO, Robert.

TheEarthCanBeMoved said...

it's been a while since I check this post.

Palm Boy,
Yes truth always prevails,
It's the vechile of delivery we're haveing trouble with.
BTW, What is this Kyoto Plan you mentioned?
I've never heard of it.
Yo ought to know C3PO isn't exactly a crediable source in this galaxy.

I hope you are right,
that all the governments on earth will no longer exist.
Because (Lord willing) I plan on taking a very active part in that battle.
And you have a point with the whole pawns of China deal,
That is how the Cold War was fought with the Soviets.

Kim Jong Il is anything but crazy or dilusional.
He is a very smart and capable leader.
He has to be to have stayed in power so long.

Legion of Justice,
Welcome to my blog.
This place is more an online journal of mine than a place for debating politics,
but I'm sure you've figured that one out.
Good point about China and Japan.
They most certainly have never gotten along throughout history.
One is always attacking the other.
I'm impressed by you knoqlege of the Raptor.
You're obviously either well connected or well studied.
(Possibly both?)
Raptor is a sweet palne,
But I perfer the Lighting II.
Especially when it gets that DEW Laser in 2016.

The Legion of Justice said...

Granted the Lightening II will be a marvel to see fly, but even then the F-35 has no chance of standing up to the might of the Raptor. Thank you for the welcome.

TheEarthCanBeMoved said...

Time shall tell.

Palm boy said...

Hey now, 3PO is fluent in over 6 million forms of communication. Don't knock that.

Kyoto is an enivromental accord from the UN that limits pollution, and the US and the Aussies are some of the only nations that have not signed onto it. Why? Because it kills economies. Its essentially a roundabout way of making the 5th world order.
The senate voted 95-0 to kill the US involvement in it, way back in '97.

KJ is ruthless and ispires fear. I do not think he is either smart or capabable.
Acctually, there we talks that a coup happened a few years ago, and KJ is nothing but a puppet. I'm to lazy to find a source, so disregaurd that.

JSF is better then the Raptor.
Works in all three branches, and is more capable of ground strikes.
What will the Raptor be fighting anyways? Mig-21s? F-16s?

TheEarthCanBeMoved said...

I don't care what he's fluent in.
Star Wars happens in a galaxy far, far away as I recall.
And all Star Wars refrences indicate that travel outside that galaxy has only been atempted once.
And that was an utter failure.
C3PO could have no knolege of current events in this galaxy.
(I feel like such a nerd now)
That and the "a long tiem ago" part doesn't help either.

The Legion of Justice said...

In flying capability the F-22 drastically outperforms the F-35. In range, it has more than double the F-35.
More capable of ground strikes? I am about to cite evidence that proves that the F-22 can do amazing ground strikes.
"EDWARDS AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. (June 12, 2006) – A U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor air dominance fighter, flying at a speed of Mach 1.5 and an altitude of 50,000 feet, released a GPS-aided Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) from a range of 24 nautical miles, destroying a small ground target in the F-22’s fastest and highest JDAM delivery yet." (Lockheed Martin Press Release, 12 June, 2006) The ability to destroy a target from over 24 miles away with a free-falling munition? Pretty impressive.
The potential planes that the F-22 may be fighting in the futire:
1. The Sukhoi Su 37. It is the fastest and most maneuverable plane that the Russians have ever built. It has full thrust vectoring making it able to do a full flip without losing forward momentum.
2. The Mig 31, nicknamed the "Raptor Killer." Not stealthy, but highly maneuverable, it is designed to outfly anything that the Raptor shoots at it. Barring that every time it performs a tight turn it pulls at the minimum three g's (in reality it will knock the pilot out every time he performs a tight turn,) it just might work.
The Raptor will still be needed to fight and supress the ground, just as much as the F-35 is needed. The F-35 does not have the super-cruise option that the F-22 has, and while it will be needed in the air, the Raptor will still be considered by all to be the dominating force in the sky.

The Legion of Justice said...

Oh,.... one more thing. The F-22 has a B variant, a fighter dedicated solely for bombing. Impressive.

мαdd said...

Snap, this got a bit inflamed.

I don't see the point of the of C3PO discussion. Palm Boy was just quoting what he thought was a quip relevant to the topic. The fact that he's a fictional character is completely irrelevant.

мαdd said...

I don't know anything about WWIII. Frankly, it doesn't concern me much. I'll have little part in it if it happens in my lifetime-I can't catch a ball, let alone fire a gun and dodge bullets. I know God'll take care of me, so it makes absolutely no difference to me if it happens in the next three dayr or three centuries.

My two cents. Thank you.